Fantasque Time Line

[Alias]

Je ne sais pas si c'est le bon endroit pour discuter de cela et il me semble que ça avait déjà été évoqué à un moment, mais je pense qu'il serait intéressant, tant pour le contenu que pour la crédibilité de la FTL de voir s'il serait possible d'étendre la gamme des intervenants pour inclure des spécialistes venus d'Allemagne ou du Japon (il me semble qu'il y a déjà des Italiens).

C'est un ressenti personnel, mais en lisant le bouquin et en repensant à tout ce que j'avais vu sur le site, j'ai un peu l'impression qu'il s'agit d'une relecture par les vainqueurs. Pas que je mette en doute l'honnêteté intellectuel de l'équipe, mais je me dis qu'un autre point de vue pourrait apporter un plus.
_________________
Stéphane "Alias" Gallay -- https://alias.erdorin.org
Multi-classé rôliste / historien / graphiste / fan de rock-prog / utilisateur de Mac

[marklbailey]

Been done in respect of Japan. However, it did not really work. The separation was amicable, but inevitable. The aims of FTL simply differed from ours.

That said, we remain ready and willing to assist FTL whenever asked, as we understand and agree with the aims of FTL.

Our aims are much more limited than those of the FTL team. For us, pure research using the alternative history as a framework is the aim.

You are welcome to look at the now-separate APOD site (http://francefightson.yuku.com/directory), ask questions and participate as much, or as little, as you wish.

Regards: Mark

[sting01]

[marklbailey]

I write here in English, as I have been assured that it is far easier to read by a mostly English-literate French audience than machine-translated comments.

Your comments indicate that the google system is somehow retranslating my English in to a garbled form.

I hope that is not happening..

[Alias]

Hi Mark and thanks for your reply.

Just to be clear, you have contacted and/or worked with Japanese experts on the FTL / APOD and it did not work out in the end, am I correct?
_________________
Stéphane "Alias" Gallay -- https://alias.erdorin.org
Multi-classé rôliste / historien / graphiste / fan de rock-prog / utilisateur de Mac

[Merlock]

[sting01]

[marklbailey]

Selamat malam, encik Sting, apa khabar?


I have tried to turn the translator off, to see if that stops the machine translator garbling the English.

Merlock - aside from specialist bookshops, very few books in French are sold in Australia. Some are reviewed in specialist press. I have not yet seen any reviews of FTL's book here. I will keep looking.

Alias - I have contacted and worked with Japanese experts on their own country's WWII activities on behalf of FTL, and also with Australian and US experts on the subject. I am, personally, also reasonably expert on the subject.

The Japanese war effort and the Pacific War are the subject of intense scholarship here in Australia, and even more so in the USA. I cannot speak for the level of scholarship in Europe on this subject, but there are many thousands of works in print, and hundreds of works published every year.

many are of exceptional quality.

Much effort is also going into translating portions of the immense Japanese scholarship into English.

When I say that 'this did not work out for FTL', I do not mean that people were not interested in helping.

The issue was that their research and their views were not accepted by the European team.

The views of the japanese war effort, staff processes, technological developments, methods of warfare and ability to adapt to new tactics retained in FTL reflect the scholarship of the 1960-70s period, as compared to available schoalrship in English and Japanese.

A good example was the IJN's program to develop Hitachi as a major aircraft supplier through license production of He-100, and the flow-on effects of this 'actually happening in the alternative history'. A Japanese scholar of their aviation industry explained that if Hitachi built He-100D as an interceptor, then J2M3 would not be developed, so A7M would be developed and enter service in 1943.

I confirmed this view, through research in English scholarship, in specialist print media such as Arawasi International, translations of Japanese documents, and post-war technical intelligence assessments.

This thoroughly researched conclusion was completely rejected by the European team, on the basis of a far more limited amount of data, much of which was obsolete, and no specific research.

This merely reflected the very different methodologies of the FTL and APOD teams, which is why the subsequent separation.

Regards: Mark

[sting01]

@Mark, I will make you laught, but I would answer Xie xie (I used to go to the golden triangle in KL , and people there are mostly spoken chinese )
_________________
La can can-can, cancouillote,
c'est pas fait pour les francois.

Anscarides je suis ne,
heritier de la Comte je serai.

[Alias]

Mark, thanks for the precision.
_________________
Stéphane "Alias" Gallay -- https://alias.erdorin.org
Multi-classé rôliste / historien / graphiste / fan de rock-prog / utilisateur de Mac

[Merlock]

[marklbailey]

Merlock: I will keep an eye out in the specialist press and report if I see anything. I'd also be happy to write a brief review for the Australian Defence Force Journal, if anyone could be kind enough to forward me some French reviews so I could judge the reception of the book in France.

Different methodologies and the separation, Captain Cave and I both take the time to look at each site.
I'd encourage everyone to do that.
There is much to gain for everyone by simply understanding and accepting the different methodologies and actively visiting and commenting on the two boards.

There is a lot of value in doing so.

For example, through the research mechanism of 'old FTL' and APOD, Shane and I have gained an insight into the development of the Japanese and German aviation industries which is unique in English. We have discovered that:
- the industries maintained intense cooperation from 1923
- some of teh best german and Japanese designers (people like Richard Vogt and Takeo Doi, worked together for years. Vogt and Doi designed no fewer then 7 IJA aircraft together 1925-1932
- Dornier bombers after the Do N were the result of cooperation between kawasaki and Dorner. The first German factory producing military bombers was teh Dornier-kawasaki factory in Switzerland (where Claude Dornier, Richard Vogt, Hisashi Tojo and Tomokichi Takezaki ALL worked together to design and built the Kawasaki-Dorner Army Type 87/Do-N heavy bomber1924-1926.
- Kawasaki development of the BMW V-12 engine got it from 550hp to 900hp. BMW then adopted all the Kawasaki technical innovations for that engine, producing it as 'their own engine'.
- the IJN had a secret aircraft factory in Copenhagen, where japanese and German designers worked on aircraft for years.
- Heinkel had a very deep relationship with the IJN, both worked out 'ideal plant layouts' for very large airframe and engine factories, which is why Heinkel's new plants from 1939 were copies of the world's largest factory at Musashi in Japan.
- The japanese had a deliberate process to develop aircraft manufacturers from small suppliers to major ones. The building of teh He-100 by Hitachi was just the latest example. ALL the major Japanese manufacturers had been developed through this same process from 1922.
- in many ways, the Japanese aircraft industry had more depth and expertise than the German industry. In particular, the relationship between industry, the services, government and finance was much more mature, practised and harmonious in Japan than it was in Germany.
- Japanese radial engine design philosophy, maturity, power ratings and technical development was years ahead of the Germans

There is a lot more we have found. That is the real benefit of research.

Alias: there are no bad feelings about this. People just want different things. That's perfectly natural. There just came a time when the two methodologies did not work together any more.

Sting: While I like Malaysia, my favourite city in the world is Singapore. I would live there in a moment if I could (yes, I do look for jobs there). I have been to Bangkok several times, and it is not a city I really enjoyed.

Regards: Mark

[sting01]

@Mark, Bkk is let say 'weird' made for 'weirdoz' Same may apply to Pattaya or even Phuket Island (not much Phuket city but Patong)(I do nto want to offend people or be jailed by saying what I do think in reality).

Sillypoor is my dream city, but my age and with qualifications misfitting my job, make impossible for me find something there.

For what I understood about the FTL methodologie, a focuse is made on how France might or might not have influenced things in Asia. While France is still a power in SEA (recent problems Thailand/Cambodia about a mere temple as exemple), the reality is we were never able to be a dominant power or a even a power broker in Asia. We were accepted in Laos and Cambodia because we were offering a protection against Siam and Vietnam. The day we stopped to provide such protection, people simply showed us the way.
_________________
La can can-can, cancouillote,
c'est pas fait pour les francois.

Anscarides je suis ne,
heritier de la Comte je serai.

[marklbailey]

[loic]