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Wings



Inscrit le: 11 Mar 2022
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 07, 2024 18:51    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

DMZ a écrit:
Quelques remarques :

Petsamo avait été rendue aux Finlandais après le traité de paix de Moscou donc dire que les Allemands l'occupent n'est pas clair.

Il me semble que c'était le gouvernement et non Mannerheim qui s'occupait de la politique, en particulier des discussions avec Moscou.

Le Tirpitz dans les eaux resserrées et archi minées du Golfe de Finlande ? C'est chaud ! La moindre attaque aérienne soviétique risque de faire très mal. Il serait étonnant que rien ne soit monté à partir de Hanko.


- Les Allemands occupent Petsamo apres avoir franchi la frontiere a Kirkenes le 22.
- Je mets Mannerheim mais oui c'est le gouvernement finlandais qui est dans la politique.
- C'est pour ca que le raid n'intervient qu'une fois l'Estonie sécurisée. L'aviation de l'Axe a eu le temps de détruire le petit terrain d'Hanko et les Soviétiques peuvent pas vraiment y faire quelque chose.

@loic: Vu que l'Ilmarinen a coulé faute a pas de chance OTL, j'ai choisi de nettoyer son incident avec les mines.
Front nordique marche mieux car plus d'invectives pour les Finlandais, mieux équipés, meilleure logistique et gouvernement plus aggressif qu'OTL vu que les Allemands y sont moins forts du a une Campagne de Norvege plus difficile.
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"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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loic
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MessagePosté le: Ven Mar 08, 2024 08:22    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Wings a écrit:
@loic: Vu que l'Ilmarinen a coulé faute a pas de chance OTL, j'ai choisi de nettoyer son incident avec les mines.

Pourquoi ne pas utiliser son jumeau ? Attention au best-case...
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En principe (moi) ...
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Wings



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MessagePosté le: Sam Mar 09, 2024 22:29    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

loic a écrit:
Wings a écrit:
@loic: Vu que l'Ilmarinen a coulé faute a pas de chance OTL, j'ai choisi de nettoyer son incident avec les mines.

Pourquoi ne pas utiliser son jumeau ? Attention au best-case...

Je crains que ce soit le but!
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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Wings



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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 10, 2024 06:20    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Chapter 35: Operation Barbarossa – Vengeful Spirits (August – September 1941)

The Germans had celebrated Operation Barbarossa’s exceptional start, but were now also worried. Indeed, to support their feat, they had called upon all of what the Luftwaffe had to give in order to completely annihilate the Red Air Force. The problem was that these air units were now needed elsewhere. The British front needed to be reinforced, the Greek front had to be maintained so as to not let the Allies take the upper hand, and, most of all, the Reich needed to be protected!

In the end, the Germans would need to slow down their air campaign, and choose a front where these air assets would be less needed. In the end, with the fall of Smolensk and the pressing need to take Kiev and rush to Leningrad, it was chosen to leave Army Group Center with a smaller air cover, with the expectation that the Soviets were too spent to effectively counter-attack. A decision that would later prove fatal.

In the north, Rommel and Von Manstein were closing in on Leningrad. With the fall of Novgorod at the end of July, efforts were made to try and take Luga, where the Soviets were keeping the link with Northern Estonia, which had until then stood against the tide of the German Panzers. However, there, in marshy and swampy terrain, the Soviets stood firm. At Luga, the Soviet forces managed to hold Manstein’s forces in check for three days before having to retreat, their line having thinned too much, and Rommel having managed to drive his Panzers from Novgorod towards Chudovo, threatening encirclement.

At the same time, the German 18th Army continued forwards, taking Narva on August 7th, thus closing the door to any possible relief of Tallinn. The city itself quickly came under siege by Von Kuchler’s forces, who collaborated heavily with the Estonians who gleefully gave away much of the Soviet positions [1]. The Soviet high command, wishing to preserve troops, gave the order to evacuate the city to bolster Leningrad’s defences. From August 15th to 18th, thousands of troops would be ferried out of the city, though at high cost. Mines claimed just under a hundred ships of all types, which sank in the shallow waters of the Baltic: a total catastrophe for the Soviets which would be repeated at Hanko just two months later. Estonia had fallen to the Germans, and the Estonian flag briefly flew on top of the Tallinn fortress, before being promptly replaced by the Swastika. For Estonia, only the Western Estonian islands remained, which would be cleared during the months of September and October from the Soviet forces which still occupied the area.

Towards the west, Rommel’s advance had proven faster than even the Soviets expected. Combined with Manstein’s Panzers breaching the line at Kinguissepp, the Soviets found themselves in a race against time to get to Leningrad. Overall, because of their already thin positions, the Soviet Army did not lose many men in the Luga pocket, which was only meant to delay the Germans. In the meantime, to try and break out units, a counter-offensive was launched towards Lake Ilmen and Novgorod, but failed. Though, in this defeat, it tied down units which would otherwise have been needed to possibly breach the line at Leningrad, though this is unlikely.

Manstein and Rommel’s forces met at Gachina on August 25th, their eyes now firmly set on Leningrad. With the Finns coming in from the north, it was now only a matter of time before the city would be encircled. The Germans thus continued their offensive at the beginning of September, striking along the Volkhov river. Mga fell on August 29th, thus severing Leningrad from the rest of the Soviet Union by rail, with the first German forces reaching Chlisselburg on the banks of Lake Ladoga just a day later. Leningrad was encircled.

The Germans did not stop there. Thinking they could press their advantage, the first divisions started to move into the city, assaulting the Pulkovo heights on September 5th and pushing the Soviets down towards the city. However, while both Manstein and Rommel wished to assault the city, it was not to be. With waning air support due to the events in the south, and worsening logistics, the Germans had to stop their advance there. Hitler, for his part, announced that he would wish to starve out the city, instead of storming it. Rommel was disappointed, and went to ask for the Fuhrer’s permission to take it with the forces at his disposal. It reportedly took an hour of backs and forth between the two men, but Hitler finally relented. However, Rommel would have a reduced number of divisions since Hitler had set his eyes on Moscow, and would need to wait for several things to launch his assault: the closing of the Oranienburg pocket, and the clearing of the left bank of the Volkhov. Still, Rommel expected that by December, he could finally assault the city. For the general the objective was now clear: he would have his photograph on board his tank with the Nazi flag behind him, raised on the Winter Palace! After all, he already had his picture taken with the same flag on the Catherine Palace in Pushkin… [2]

At the same time, to the south, the Soviets were preparing for their great battle against the Germans in Kiev. Kirponos had managed to hold Korosten out of reach, protecting the northern flank, but Guderian was slowly sending forces southwards from Smolensk to outmaneuver the defenders. To the south, Von Rundstedt had also bypassed Kiev and was aiming for the Dniepr on every front: Nikolaev fell on August 18th and Kherson on August 23rd. However, no bridgeheads were taken: the Soviets had managed to withdraw and properly dig in, annoying the German high command.

Though, with a weakened position, the Germans certainly tried. At Zaporozhye, they were repulsed, but at Dnipropetrovsk, the 13th Panzer Division managed to capture one bridge and secure the city, on September 2nd. The Soviets furiously counter-attacked this isolated position, which, supported by the Luftwaffe, managed to hold at the cost of staggering losses. Though this concentration of means also allowed the SS of the Viking division to secure another bridgehead, at Cherkasy, three days later. This bridgehead would also be counter-attacked by Soviet forces, but the damage had been done and the 9th Panzer had managed to slither through. It wasn’t all bad news for the Soviets, though, as they successfully repulsed bridgeheads at Kherson and Nikopol.

In the meantime, Army Group Center’s forces began their large encirclement cut from Smolensk down towards the south. Gomel fell on August 18th to Guderian’s Panzers, with the Soviets offering determined resistance all along the Panzers path. With hampered logistics and marshy ground to cover, the advance slowed down, much to the Germans’ annoyance, though the Ukrainian border was still reached by September. German forces took advantage of the weaker resistance in this area to establish bridgeheads over the Desna and aimed at the Dniepr.

Kirponos, in Kiev, saw the danger coming, but was powerless to stop it. After his heroic defence of Korosten and his perceived heroics in Kiev, the Soviet high command wished for him to hang on. And this meant keeping his best units facing the west, right where the Panzers were not striking [3]! Kirponos thus petitioned Budyonny, who in turn pestered the Stavka to at least give up Korosten to shorten the line. These efforts did pay off, likely coinciding with the German forces crossing the Dniepr and the very real possibility of a massive encirclement if nothing was done.

With the great encirclement looming, Soviet forces counter-attacked from Bryansk to blunt and even stop Guderian’s advance southwards towards Konotop. The Soviet air force gave a maximum effort on the day, flying no less than 4,000 sorties, thus putting a massive strain on Luftwaffe forces. Guderian’s advance stalled, but eventually gained back its momentum. With this setback, another counter-attack was ordered on September 3rd, with Soviet forces already tired. This counter-attack was disorganized and lacked proper air support, dooming it to failure, and with it, the fate of the Kiev pocket was thus sealed.

For Guderian, the counter-offensive still had taken wind out of his sails. He lacked forces to properly close the Kiev pocket, and spent a few days arguing to get the forces he wished in order to properly launch his offensive. Once this was done, he resumed his advance south and took Chernigov on September 10th. The fall of the city prompted the Soviets to evacuate all of their forces from the left bank of the Desna, which at this point did not amount to much regardless. This however put Kiev in an almost untenable position. Budyonny tried to ask for the Kiev front to be withdrawn: to no avail. Stalin ordered Kirponos to hold [4]. Budyonny himself was replaced with marshal Timoshenko, though this one had no real idea that the Bryansk forces were ghosts and would never be able to relieve the Kiev forces.

In the meantime, Guderian continued to push southwards, along with the Panzers that had established their bridgeheads to the south. The objective was the town of Lubny, which was quickly under siege on September 12th. Only the determined Soviet resistance stopped the two massive German pincers from closing, time during which the Soviet commanders bickered about what to do [5]. On September 15th, Timoshenko begged Shaposhnikov to withdraw the Kiev forces. The next day, the Germans closed the encirclement, trapping almost 700,000 men.

Stalin for his part was unimpressed. He categorically refused Timoshenko, then Shaposhnikov and Vasilyevsky’s pleas to withdraw Kirponos’ forces while the German lines were still thin. The Stavka had to persuade Stalin for these forces to withdraw to better positions, and finally the order to abandon Kiev was given. Kirponos did not wait for the orders to come in to break out, but, panicked, the Soviet forces lacked coordination. This did not mean that they did not experience some amount of success. In several occasions, Soviet forces managed to break out and even encircle German forces themselves!

But the German war machine had started to crush the Kiev pocket. Slowly, individual units were encircled and picked off one by one. Noting that order was collapsing, Kirponos personally took command of a wide group. Along with generals Vlasov, Bagramian and Kuznetsov, he organized a massive breakout attempt on German forces where he thought them to be weak: at Zhurivka. In the meantime, Timoshenko, Budyonny and Khrushchev had managed to escape by air. General Kostenko, of the 26th Army, was not as lucky and was killed during a Luftwaffe strike while retreating. On September 19th, German troops occupied Kiev, though sporadic fighting would still occur until the end of the month.
Kirponos and his group for their part had managed to assemble a force large enough for an organized breakout.

Knowing that individual attempts had low chances of succeeding, he charged head first into the lines of the 95th Infantry Division, who were completely caught off-guard. Kirponos had struck at lines in which he knew no tanks were present, thus enabling his force to punch through, benefitting from the element of surprise and the lower bite of the Luftwaffe. Despite the Germans’ dogged resistance, Kirponos rushed to Pryluky fast enough for the Germans to be overwhelmed by the attempt. Many units were left behind, but on September 22nd, Vlasov’s troops were the first one to make contact with Soviet forces around Romny. Kirponos himself would escape with Bagramian and Kuznetsov on September 23rd. Guderian did manage to use his Panzers to cut off several units which failed to completely overwhelm the 95th, but the damage had been done: Kirponos had managed to escape along with 85,000 men towards friendly lines. And despite the 620,000 men dead, wounded or captured, the “escape of the generals” would leave a very sour taste in Guderian’s mouth.

Not to mention that at the same time, the Soviets had been met with much more success northwards! At Smolensk, Army Group Center forces were left alone against the Soviets, who were considered to be completely beaten. But on September 6th, Marshal Zhukov and his Reserve Front went on the offensive! Because of the lessened Luftwaffe presence, the goal of this offensive was simply to retake Smolensk from the enemy. Having seen the Panzers move south, Zhukov had waited to launch his offensive, and when it hit, the Germans were caught completely off-guard!
This was not one of the weak counter-offensives of the start of the war, this was a coordinated assault on the three infantry divisions guarding the Smolensk area. Soviet tanks rushed from the north at Demidov, with Soviet tanks overrunning the German positions at Potchinok, in a move reminiscent of the German army’s pincers at Uman or the Dvina! The shocked Germans held their ground, but for once, the Luftwaffe seemed to have more trouble than usual. Pounded by the bombs, the lines slowly melted down, until the impossible seemed to be drawn: Smolensk risked encirclement.

Hitler did not like this at all: Smolensk was supposed to be the first stepping stone to Moscow! But in reality, there is not much he could do. The 78th Infantry Division, in Smolensk, was being battered and if nothing was done, faced annihilation. In the meantime, while the Soviet advance would not go much further than this, it was clear that unless Guderian had some Panzers to send, Smolensk could not be held. Thus, after three days of dogged fighting, the 78th evacuated Smolensk towards the already cursed city of Katyn. On its left and right, the 137th and 292nd Infantry Divisions stopped any attempts by the Soviets to try and exploit their limited success, especially with the return of the bird with the Black Cross.

The damage had been done, though. On September 13th, the Red Flag flew over the ruins of Smolensk, sign that the Soviets were not done fighting and that they would keep attacking to preserve every inch of their territory. It almost made Stalin forget that, to the south, a great encirclement was looming in Ukraine.

But for Hitler, the loss of Smolensk was unacceptable. Operation Typhoon would soon begin, and the first city to fall would need to be Smolensk! Or, even better, if the Soviets that had so brazenly spat in Hitler’s face could be encircled, it would wipe the shame of this first setback! In December, Hitler thought, the Nazi flag would be flying on Red Square, and this would soon be forgotten.

In fact, the Germans would never even see the Volga.

[1] The NKVD massacring hundreds of prisoners before leaving probably had something to do with their enthusiastic collaboration.
[2] OTL Rommel’s ego was out of control, and he loved the attention. So, him setting himself the goal of being “the one who took Saint Petersburg” would become almost an obsession.
[3] Pretty much as OTL. Kirponos was a smart commander and knew that Guderian was coming: he just couldn’t take his best units off of the western side of the front.
[4] Stalin was scared that a withdrawal would be chaotic and result in massive pockets like Uman, and that in the chaos the Soviets would also leave a bridgehead for the Germans and get pressured from one more side in addition to the north and south.
[5] As OTL. The Soviets thought one moment that the situation was fine and that the officers on the ground were overreacting, and the next that a great disaster was going to happen.
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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Wings



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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2024 04:37    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Chapter 36: Mussolini’s Ambitions (Autumn and Winter 1941 – Greece)

With Operation Barbarossa off to a great success, someone in Rome felt extremely jealous. Indeed, Mussolini seemed to have been isolated and on the sidelines. Certainly, the return of Corsica, Savoy and Nice into the motherland had been a boost to his image and prestige, but nothing since then had been going according to plan. The triumph in Greece never came, and he now had to sit on an inactive frontline, with a half-dead navy, waiting for the Germans to come back from their expedition to Russia.

This was not counting on Mussolini’s ambition, though. Any boost to his ego and prestige would do, especially if it meant impressing Hitler. Thus, as soon as the guns fell somewhat silent on the Greek front, and started to fire on the Eastern front, Mussolini started to plan. If he could take Athens and kick out the Allies from continental Europe, he could enhance his station in the Axis, where even the Romanians and Finns were starting to be considered better allies in Berlin!

As such, Mussolini reinforced his front. He brought three divisions to the Greek front, transferred from the mainland: the 3rd Division (celere) Principe Amedeo Duca d’Aosta, the 9th Infantry Division Pasubio and the 52nd Infantry Division Torino [1]. These three divisions would add to the 13 divisions already present on the front, and would form the backbone of the force that would break out to Athens.
While Mussolini could have been considered outright delusional for his plans, in fact there had been several signs pointing to a resurgence in Italian firepower. The Allies had not attempted any offensive operations ever since the halt of active fighting on the Greek front. Better, there had been no naval sortie ever since a shelling raid was intercepted by a wave of SM.79 torpedo bombers which sunk the destroyers HMS Kelvin and MN Tigre while severely damaging the destroyer RHS Vasilefs Georgios. Furthermore, on June 28th, a Decima MAS raid in Souda Bay caught the Royal Navy unaware, sinking two tankers and the cruiser HMS Hermione. The Decima MAS even managed to penetrate the port of Alexandria, thought invulnerable, sinking the cruiser HMS York and putting the battleship HMS Queen Elizabeth out of action for six months. Italian submarines also reaped their toll, with the submarine Malachite sinking the cruiser HMS Carlisle as she was escorting a convoy between Malta and Alexandria.

In addition, Mussolini had seen the reports that the Allies had been neglecting the frontline. It seemed much of the Commonwealth troops had left, leaving the Greeks in charge of almost the entirety of the front. For Il Duce, this seemed like the perfect time to strike.

But in fact, while most of the Commonwealth troops had been withdrawn, and the front had less troops than before, it was very much not left undefended. The Allied Expeditionary Corps in Greece had seen a few troops leave, that was true, but these were the Yugoslav troops, which went to Crete for reorganization and reequipment. The French 86th DIA was withdrawn from the frontline, but it was replaced by the 4th Moroccan Mountain Division (DMM) which took position in the mountainous Karpenisi sector. In the Lamia gap, the “Spartans” of the 6th Australian were still present, alongside the French 1st DB and the Greek 19th Mechanized. Only the 2nd New Zealand was withdrawn…but it would soon come to bite Mussolini where it hurt. The New Zealand unit was replaced with the newly formed 20th Greek Armoured Division Makedonia (on Covenanter and Valentine) [2]. As for the western area of the front, the Greeks of the EMAG were reinforced, and stayed there along with the 6th British Infantry. The loss of the Belgian 2nd Infantry (withdrawn to Libya awaiting Operation Torch) was made up with the arrival, in September, of the 6th Free Norwegian Infantry Division, at Spercheiada. The arrival of this division and the redeployment of the 10th Indian Division to the west foreshadowed the formation of the future Commonwealth Corps which would soon, it was hoped, take to the offensive in the region. Only the 7th Armoured Division was not replaced at the front, but was hardly needed as it was affected to operations elsewhere.

And since the Allies had the advantage, to Mussolini’s shock, it was they who struck first! On September 6th, a brigade of Greek paratroopers landed on the island of Limnos, soon followed by elements of the 2nd NZ Infantry and French legionnaires of the 13th DBLE. The German garrison, shocked by such a move, was completely overwhelmed, and capitulated a mere four days later, though not at no cost for the Allies. With German and Italian bombing raids, no less than 7 ships were sunk: the light cruisers HMS Cairo and Dido, the destroyers HMS Fury, Javelin and Laforey, RHS Spetsai and MN Simoun.

Furious, Hitler ordered to retake the islands. While Barbarossa was met with stunning success, the island of Limnos could not fall back into Allied hands! It was then that Mussolini proposed an offensive into Greece, something that OKH agreed with, if only for the diversionary aspect. The Italian forces would thus be reinforced with the 16th Panzer Division and 46th Infantry Division when attacking the gates of Lamia.

On October 12th, the Italians of the Duca d’Aosta division attacked the Australians of the 6th Spartans at Lamia, with plenty of air support and the collaboration of the Germans of the 16th Panzer. Unfortunately for them, the Allies had been waiting since June, and had plenty of time to prepare. The Axis forces soon found themselves in vast minefields, while under fire from the French and Greek tanks hiding in ambush. Just like in June, the Axis forces had run like lambs to the slaughter, and it wasn’t only at Lamia that things were going badly. At Amphilochia, the Greeks showed the Italians that they had lost none of their fierceness in combat from the Greco-Italian War, and even launched localized counter-attacks. In the mountains, the 3rd Alpine Division Julia was shocked to discover that the Africans in front of them knew how to fight in this rugged terrain, and did not manage to break through into the valley as expected.

Finally, in the air, the Allies put more and more pressure on the Axis forces. The German Bf-109 and Bf-110 along with the Italian Re.2000 and Macchi C.202 were swarmed by a litany of aircraft of different types and roundels: British Hurricane and Spitfire, Belgian P-39, French P-40, Greek Hurricane and Wildcat, and even some Yugoslav P-40s which had just joined the fray! In the midst of the French aircraft, some British airmen in Athens would notice the presence of heavy accents: in fact, it was the French answer to the Eagle squadron, deployed in England. The Lafayette squadron, led by Edward W. Anderson, was deployed with the French Air Force at Egina, and had scored no less than 11 victories (highest scoring belonging to Pierce “Mac” McKennon, 4 victories).

Both over Greece and Limnos, the Germans suffered outrageous casualties both on the ground and in the air, though it did not weaken Hitler’s resolve to take out Limnos. On November 3rd, an airborne assault was carried out over the island, and failed miserably. When the transport planes were not blown to bits by the Allied air force, they sometimes had to ditch their paratroopers over the sea, or on the wrong island. Some Luftwaffe airmen found themselves parachuted on the island of Imbros, where they were promptly interned by Turkish police! And for those who did land, it was in scattered order and without a clear plan. The French legionnaires, New Zealand infantrymen and Greek paratroopers had no issues in isolating pockets of resistance and slowly picking them off one by one. The Germans did try to evacuate their troops with the few ships of the Aegean Fleet they had on hand, but these attempts were quickly thwarted by the Allied navies, though a few Allied small ships paid the price, along with the cruiser HMS Durban and the destroyer HMS Kingston.

On November 9th, it was clear that the operation had been a failure. The Italians had only succeeded in taking a few minor mountain passes as well as re-established control over the flanks of Mount Othrys, which just extended a frontline that did not need it. The air forces of the Axis were severely damaged, to the point where it now hampered operations on the Eastern Front, where they were now badly needed. Mussolini had failed, and was chastised by Hitler greatly for it. Not only had the offensive not worked, but it had cost the Axis dearly.

For Mussolini, the humiliation was not over. On December 6th, a few ships of the Regia Marina were set upon by what seemed to be an entire fleet of ships just off of Pantelleria. Seven Italian destroyers were sunk for the loss of the French destroyer Volta and the British destroyers HMS Mohawk and Punjabi. In fact, these vessels had just stumbled upon the convoy which led the men of the 2nd NZ Infantry and the 13th DBLE (already used to island landings) to storm the islands of Pantelleria and Lampedusa. They would be reinforced by French colonial troops of the 3rd GTM after 24 hours, with the islands falling after three days of gruelling combat.

For Italy, this was a serious defeat. The Axis was triumphing on the Eastern Front, Moscow was within reach, the Don was surely going to be bridged, and they were losing territories that were as Italian as Rome or Milan! At home the political situation was becoming extremely tricky for Mussolini, and the entry of the United States in the war would hardly change that. One little kick would be enough to make the whole house of cards come crashing down.

Luckily for Mussolini, the Allies could not do much. After the newest bloodletting in Greece, conducting offensive operations in the Balkans was deemed impossible until the Greek units had been properly reequipped along with the Yugoslavs, and the Luftwaffe had been sufficiently weakened to allow such operations. Operations of limited scope such as Limnos, Pantelleria or Lampedusa were thus allowed to gain experience, but not much else. Luckily, the wait would not be long for the Allies. It was a long winter, marked with several setbacks and some victories in the Far East, but the tide would turn, and in Spring, the Axis would finally feel what it felt to be attacked in their backyard.

[1] These units formed the OTL Italian Expeditionary Corps in Russia.
[2] Formed from the Greek Cavalry Division.
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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loic
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2024 11:22    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Citation:
Certainly, the return of Corsica, Savoy and Nice into the motherland


Ces trois territoires n'ont jamais fait partie du royaume italien, il faut plutôt évoquer les Irredenti.

Citation:
The Allies had not attempted any offensive operations ever since the halt of active fighting on the Greek front. Better, there had been no naval sortie ever since a shelling raid was intercepted by a wave of SM.79 torpedo bombers


Que font les sous-marins alliés ?

Citation:
The loss of the Belgian 2nd Infantry (withdrawn to Libya awaiting Operation Torch)


Torch, c'est l'assaut sur Pantelleria et Lampedusa ?

Citation:
With German and Italian bombing raids, no less than 7 ships were sunk: the light cruisers HMS Cairo and Dido, the destroyers HMS Fury, Javelin and Laforey, RHS Spetsai and MN Simoun.

Je trouve ces pertes trop élevées, car :
1) le gros de la LW est en Russie (et il n'y a toujours que le Xe FK qui sache attaquer des navires)
2) il s'agit pour certains de navires dotés de radar et d'un fort potentiel AA
3) où est l'aviation alliée

Citation:
Moscow was within reach


De très loin alors
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En principe (moi) ...
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2024 16:48    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

loic a écrit:
Citation:
Certainly, the return of Corsica, Savoy and Nice into the motherland


Ces trois territoires n'ont jamais fait partie du royaume italien, il faut plutôt évoquer les Irredenti.

Citation:
The Allies had not attempted any offensive operations ever since the halt of active fighting on the Greek front. Better, there had been no naval sortie ever since a shelling raid was intercepted by a wave of SM.79 torpedo bombers


Que font les sous-marins alliés ?

Citation:
The loss of the Belgian 2nd Infantry (withdrawn to Libya awaiting Operation Torch)


Torch, c'est l'assaut sur Pantelleria et Lampedusa ?

Citation:
With German and Italian bombing raids, no less than 7 ships were sunk: the light cruisers HMS Cairo and Dido, the destroyers HMS Fury, Javelin and Laforey, RHS Spetsai and MN Simoun.

Je trouve ces pertes trop élevées, car :
1) le gros de la LW est en Russie (et il n'y a toujours que le Xe FK qui sache attaquer des navires)
2) il s'agit pour certains de navires dotés de radar et d'un fort potentiel AA
3) où est l'aviation alliée

Citation:
Moscow was within reach


De très loin alors


- Je vais le mettre entre guillemets.
- Les SM Alliés continuent de bloquer la RM dans ses ports. Pas grand chose qu'elle puisse faire contre les attaques aériennes.
- Torch c'est la Sicile.
- Noté, je vais réduire le nombre de pertes.
- Du point de vue de la propagande de l'Axe, c'est de près car la victoire ne saurait tarder!
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"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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MessagePosté le: Mer Mar 13, 2024 19:21    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Wings a écrit:
- Les SM Alliés continuent de bloquer la RM dans ses ports. Pas grand chose qu'elle puisse faire contre les attaques aériennes.

Les Italiens sont bien obligés de faire des convois vers le Dodécanèse, non ?
Wings a écrit:
- Torch c'est la Sicile.

Un peu prématuré à ce stade.
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Wings



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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2024 00:30    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

loic a écrit:
Wings a écrit:
- Les SM Alliés continuent de bloquer la RM dans ses ports. Pas grand chose qu'elle puisse faire contre les attaques aériennes.

Les Italiens sont bien obligés de faire des convois vers le Dodécanèse, non ?
Wings a écrit:
- Torch c'est la Sicile.

Un peu prématuré à ce stade.

- Quel Dodécanèse? Il est occupé depuis Novembre 1940.
- Pas avant Printemps 1942.
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 14, 2024 07:43    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Wings a écrit:
- Quel Dodécanèse? Il est occupé depuis Novembre 1940.
- Pas avant Printemps 1942.

Dans ce cas, des convois vers la Sardaigne.
Invasion de la Sicile au printemps 1942 ? C'est ambitieux !
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MessagePosté le: Dim Mar 17, 2024 03:16    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Chapter 37: Operation Barbarossa – Desolate Autumn (October – December 1941)

As winter settled in, it was clear that the USSR would not fall before the end of 1941, and a gruelling winter campaign lay ahead. For Erwin Rommel, around Leningrad, it was time to take stock about how to take out this annoying pocket. He had taken the Pulkovo heights, which gave him good artillery positions over the city, and had secured a small corridor on Lake Ladoga. Rommel knew he couldn’t send his Panzers into the city, but he was first determined in enlarging the German corridor to Lake Ladoga by crossing the Volkhov river with the Finnish positions along the Svir as an objective. He could then tighten the noose on Leningrad without worrying about his flank.

This plan was met with conflicting opinions. Von Leeb wished to reduce the Oranienburg pocket while also moving towards Karelia, something Hitler rejected. However, Rommel knew that this would not be the worst idea. His Panzers could very well cross the Volkhov and then dash along Lake Ladoga instead of reaching far out towards Tikhvin like Hitler wished. For Rommel, the offensive towards Tikhvin would mean a long siege of Leningrad, something he very much was against. So, putting rivalries aside, he made common cause with Von Leeb, telling Hitler that his Panzers could then bridge the Volkhov and prevent the Soviets from counter-attacking there. After some backs and forths, in which Rommel personally went to Rastenburg to discuss with the Fuhrer, Hitler gave his assent to the Von Leeb plan.

On October 8th, 1941, Rommel launched his offensive towards Lake Ladoga, along the Volkhov but never crossing it. In the meantime, Von Leeb and Von Kuchler started to reduce the Oranienburg pocket after a Luftwaffe bombing which helped soften up the defences. Along the Volkhov, Rommel made good progress thanks to his Panzers, and Volkhov fell on October 15th, after a short cavalcade. In the meantime, the 126th Infantry established a bridgehead around Panevo, threatening a push towards the east. This meant that the pressure was alleviated on Rommel, who pushed through and reached the shore of Lake Ladoga on October 19th. Ever daring, the “Baltic Fox” immediately bridged the river and ran to the Sias river by October 23rd.

However, with supply problems and issues in the drive towards Moscow, the front became secondary for Berlin. The link with the Karelian Army was not established, but with logistics strained, it would not be possible to reach them unless the Finns attacked themselves. But, in a storm of bad news of the Wehrmacht, Army Group North became suddenly right back at the center of attention as Oranienburg fell on November 3rd, though Soviet forces would resist in the area well into 1942.

It was at this moment where the Soviets struck. Wishing to keep the link over the iced Lake Ladoga to Leningrad, Ivan Fedyuninsky and the Soviet 54th Army struck, aiming to clear the bridgeheads along the Volkhov. The bridgehead of the 126th Infantry at Panevo was particularly hard hit, and its forces were forced back across the river on November 7th. However, Rommel’s forces held on as the Panzers reaped a toll on the Soviet forces, which lacked the heavy KVs which would’ve been needed to clear the area. Holding the flank, to the south, was a unique unit. The 250th Infantry protected the town of Kolchanovo, along the Sias, thus securing Rommel’s southern edge. Fedyuninsky saw this unit as less experienced and easy to break, as they were comprised entirely of Spanish Nationalists. This would allow him to break on the rear of Rommel’s forces.

The Blue Division came under assault from the Soviet forces, who had armoured support on top of strong artillery presence. Despite this hell launched upon them, it was not the easy victory Fedyuninsky expected. The Blue Division lost ground, but at no point did it give its positions on the left bank of the Sias. The Spanish held for three days until finally, salvation would come from an unexpected place.

Rommel had been approached by Mannerheim for a “joint offensive on Leningrad”. Surprised by this offer of help, Rommel and Von Leeb accepted the Finnish help, which would allow to blunt the Soviet offensive. On November 16th, Finnish forces advanced from Pasha and bridged the Reka Pasha, extending an arm to Rommel’s forces, which took to the offensive and seized Syasstroy. With the fall of this city, and the prospect of losing all of Lake Ladoga, the Soviets abandoned the Spanish…who went on the offensive! Limited in scope due to the dense woods, the Spanish offensive was ineffective in terms of territorial gains, but it distracted the Soviets long enough for them to come too late to stop the Germans and Finns from linking up for the first time at Volosovo. At the same time, Finnish forces had advanced towards Vaskala and Repino, albeit at the cost of moderate casualties. It must be said that the Soviets did not expect an advance from there! The month of December was spent with the Soviets trying and failing to dislodge the Germans from the banks of Lake Ladoga, without success. In the end, Fedyuninsky stopped his attacks, and waited for the new year to relaunch his forces, in the last days of the battle of Leningrad.

Further south, things had turned sour in Army Group Center. Hitler, furious after the loss of Smolensk, had ordered to trap the forces there in a “Kessel” during the offensive on Moscow. With Army Group Center receiving all the attention of the Luftwaffe, the Soviet forces were in for a rude awakening on September 30th. Hell seemed to have rained down on them as the Luftwaffe bombed the ruins of the city to dust, with Reinhardt’s tanks slowly moving in a pincer.

Stalin once again refused to let go of the city for which so many Soviet soldiers had fallen. Once again, many lives which could have been saved were used in a fruitless attempt to hold a city that was doomed to fall. Despite the heroic resistance of the Soviet defenders, they were encircled on October 6th, and slowly destroyed. Luckily, Reinhardt and Hoepner’s tanks could not go much further. Despite this beautiful success, the weather turned sour and mud came in. German tanks were slowed down, allowing for Soviet forces to regroup and counter-attack. At Suetovo, Soviet T-34s ambushed a column of Panzers on the road to Vyazma, catching the German column completely off-guard and almost annihilating it. Even the new Panzer IVs had trouble in dispatching this new threat, and the German advance stalled.
To the south, Guderian’s redeployed units struck towards Bryansk, attacking in two prongs. Here, while resistance was less adamant, it was more organized. Andrei Yeremenko, the front commander, opted for a defence in depth, which allowed lower casualties on the Soviet side. Bryansk was eventually encircled and taken, but it was at the cost of comparatively low casualties to Smolensk, to the north. The fall of both cities led Stalin to reinstate Zhukov as commander in chief of the Western Front, merging the Western and Reserve fronts to defend Moscow.

Zhukov organized a defence line centered around the Vyazma-Kaluga axis. To the north, where resistance was meager, with more difficult terrain, German forces advanced deep into Soviet territory. Bely and Nelidovo fell, but the Wehrmacht, constrained by logistics and in the face of stiffening resistance, had to stop at Bobrovka, short of the Volga, as to the south, things had gone sour.

The Wehrmacht made contact with the defence line at Vyazma, immediately stopping the advance. At Kirov, Rokossovsky’s 16th Army fought tooth and nail to delay the German advance towards Kaluga, inflicting extremely heavy casualties to the Germans in the process. Though the Soviet general had to let go of the city, it had its effect. German troops had been worn down, only at a third or half their strength, and stopped even short of Kaluga.

They waited a month there, for the mud to finally freeze over, and resumed operations on November 15th. German Panzers pushed towards Kaluga with vigour, taking Babynino on November 23rd and Korekozevo the next day. However, Zhukov had had time to reinforce the city and drag reserves there. With Vyazma holding and little threat of a breakthrough towards Rzhev, the Soviets doggedly held on. The Germans reached the Oka and Urga rivers, securing the south bank, before trying to break through to the city center. Believing the key to the road to Moscow was there, Hitler ordered support for a breakthrough there. A bridgehead was established in early December, but vigorous counter-attacks by Golubev’s 43rd Army and a diversionary counter-attack by Pavel Belov’s 1st Guards Cavalry Corps at Odoev, to the south, forced the Germans to withdraw from Kaluga’s north bank on December 9th. The last to withdraw were the Frenchmen of the 638th Infantry Regiment, which would soon be folded into the SS Division Charlemagne.

The day of the fall of Kaluga, the Soviets counter-attacked. With the Germans defeated, Stalin thought that it was possible to throw them all the way back to Smolensk, or even Belarus! In fact, due to the small gains, the Germans had consolidated most of their gains, which led to the Soviets hitting a brick wall. Despite this, the Soviet forces, better equipped for winter warfare, did break out in several places. Added to this, the Luftwaffe faced extreme difficulties due to the cold and logistical nightmares in the back of the front, added to partisan attacks in Belarus and Ukraine. Soviet troops liberated Kaluga’s southern bank and Vyazma, but failed to reach their initial objectives, which were Bryansk and Smolensk.

Despite what could be considered as a defensive victory considering the Soviet forces’ decisive attacks, Hitler was still furious, and dismissed Guderian, Hoepner and Strauss, taking personal control of the Wehrmacht. This one, by 1942, had fallen back to the Bely-Izhdeshkovo-Zaitseva Gora-Sukhinitshi-Bolkhov line. Something that displeased both Hitler and Stalin!

To the south, things were more difficult for the German Army. After losingt he head of the 11th Army, General Von Schobert (replaced by Von Manstein), Army Group South attacked southwards from Kiev and over the Dniepr, with Romanian forces having just been replenished after the Siege of Odessa joining in. Strong Soviet defences hampered Axis progression in Ukraine, which only really collapsed because of the pressure exerted by German Panzers to the north. But the Luftwaffe, too preoccupied with Typhoon, could not be everywhere. It was now the skies of Ukraine which now saw dogged fights between the planes of the black cross and those of the red star.

Because of the lessened air support, progress was difficult. The Romanian 3rd Army only reached the entrance to Crimea on October 12th, with Melitopol only falling on the 18th, far behind schedule. Axis forces quickly rushed into the Crimean Peninsula, but, delayed, faced severe resistance from the Soviet forces which had consolidated their positions. Simferopol only fell on November 1st, with Sebastopol itself being encircled on November 9th.

More to the north, German forces fought with difficulty. Both the Romanians and SS troops of the Leibstandarte struggled against the Soviet forces, with Berdiansk only falling on October 21st, trapping a meagre 50,000 Soviet troops, far from the expected 150,000 or more that OKH was predicting. Even further north, German forces were also hampered in what was thought to be a victory march into Kharkov. Suffering against Kirponos’ troops, many of whom veterans of Kiev, the city only fell on November 1st. The assault was so brutal for the Germans that the offensive stopped almost immediately afterwards, with Germany needing to call up the I Hungarian Corps, until then in reserve, to take place on the front and hold the southern flank of Kharkov, at Izyum, along the Donets river.

German forces painfully approached the Donets, but were unable to advance further. German forces were kept in check at Kramatorsk, Pokrovsk, Vuhledar and Yalta, far from the objectives of Rostov and Luhansk, let alone the Mius River. In fact, the Germans would try to advance towards Mariupol, but even after a successful assault of the city on November 26th, a vast counter-attack from Soviet forces retook the city on December 4th.

Army Group South had failed its objectives, and the defeat at Mariupol was a particularly stinging one. Von Rundstedt, commander of Army Group South, was relieved of command and replaced by Von Reichenau.

There was still continued fighting in and around Crimea, where German and Romanian forces continued the siege of Sevastopol, which was finally assaulted on December 16th, with disappointing results. While the Axis forces did manage to seize several positions south of the Belbek river, they were unable to hold them as the Soviets staged an amphibious landing on the Kerch peninsula to draw forces east. Frontove and Kholmivka did remain in Axis hands, held by the Romanian 1st Mountain Division and the German 72nd Infantry Division, but the final assault on Sevastopol would need to be held later, in the Spring, when conditions were more favourable and losses had been replenished.

For all intents and purposes, Operation Barbarossa was over.
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 21, 2024 04:49    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Chapter 38: Preparing the East (1941 – Pacific)

Ever since the cessation of hostilities during the Franco-Indochinese incident, the Allies had started reinforcing the Far East, and quickly. Catroux, in Saigon, knew that the Japanese had knocked once and would come knocking again. The Hanoi-Kunming railway was too important to be left open for the Japanese. In Downing Street, similar worries were raised. The Japanese were going to come for Indochina, but also Malaya, Singapore, the East Indies and Burma…

Thailand was one particular focus of the Allied command. With Pridi Banomyong at the helm, Thailand had taken a pro-Allied position, but internal politics prevented him from showing it too openly. The Japanese were already angered about Pridi’s refusal of letting them station troops and aircraft, and had begun a large propaganda campaign to discredit Pridi’s government in the face of its people: cutting deals with the colonialists was of course at the forefront…

Thus, Pridi had to toe a fine line. He wished for his country to go towards the West, but also knew that the political sensibilities prevented him from doing so. There were trade agreements, and covert promises. Notably, when Pridi flew to Calcutta for a meeting with Marshal Robert Brooke-Popham (C-in-C Far East), Britain promised Thailand its “full support in case of foreign aggression”. However, Pridi was unable to promise the British any transit rights as long as Thailand wasn’t at war.

There was, however, the understanding that if Thailand was invaded, Britain would rush to its defence. A similar agreement was reached with Catroux during a visit to Phnom Penh to discuss the defence of the Cambodian area, and the status of the Thai navy. Isolated in the Gulf of Thailand, it would have to rush through a Japanese blockade in order to reach Singapore, thus abandoning Thailand. Something that Pridi was more and more aware of. Thankfully, under the leadership of Phraya Songsuradej, named commander in chief of the Royal Thai Army, most of Phibun’s loyalties had waned as he was sidelined from power and eventually sent to Japan.

In addition, while the Japanese now refused to send fighters to Thailand, the Americans were willing to send old Buffalos and P-39s to the Thais, who gracefully accepted. Churchill did offer Hurricanes, but once again, politically, accepting a colonialist aircraft was not something palatable for Pridi.
And in the meantime, the Allied strategy in the Far East took shape. With the reinforcement of the Hanoi-Haiphong railway and the creation of the Burma Road, aid rushed into China. Old Italian equipment, such as artillery, tankettes and even armoured vehicles, were sent to Burma and then to Yunnan, equipping a Chinese army that slowly started to resemble a fighting force, and would be able to secure the Allied rear in Southeast Asia.

On the British side, the calm in Africa and the absence of any upcoming operations before Spring 1942 made it possible to commit several Commonwealth divisions that had been otherwise planned for transfer in Europe. On the other hand, this increased military presence incensed the colonials, who hated the disruption and did not believe in the fact that Japan would invade. The entitled, racist and overall, very rich upper class thus was not afraid to voice their displeasure to London, as well as their very…opinionated remarks towards the Indian soldiers in the area. These Indian soldiers then voiced their protests to Delhi, who passed them on to London.

Churchill felt that Percival had not done enough, and needed someone on the ground that would be able to have a no-nonsense attitude and a defensive mind. Luckily, High Command had just the man. General Harold Alexander had led in France with great skill, and had experience in working with Commonwealth troops before (the 6th Australian being an example). He had a no-nonsense attitude when it came to military imperatives and had brilliantly led the BEF during its fighting retreat from France, being amongst the last to be evacuated at Dunkirk. Harold Alexander thus replaced Percival as GOC Malaya, while likewise, William Slim would replace Lt-General MacLeod as GOC Burma. The latter would have the task of defending Burma on the Salween, and potentially enter Thailand…

The air forces were similarly reinforced. While the British did not commit their Spitfires, the RAAF put their brand new P-40s in Malaya, reinforcing Sqn 21 and 453 with the American fighter, with the New Zealanders similarly putting their new P-39 squadrons on the line in the peninsula, along with bombing units on Bleinheim and Wirraway.

Indochina, for its part, was also reinforced. France knew that it could not hold the area, but it would still need to be defended, for political and strategic reasons. Thanks to British help, Indochina had been reinforced with several squadrons of old aircraft (D-520 recovered from England or Buffalo generously given by Belgium), as well as newer P-40s brought in by the carrier Dixmude. As for troops, France categorically refused to send any more: Indochina was lost, it was pointless to send more men in there. However, under U.S pressure, Mandel consented to the sending of a Foreign Legion battalion and an armoured group (65 tanks) in October 1941. France would defend Indochina to the best of its ability, and then retreat to the highlands, fixing its defence on two points: Luang Prabang and Dien-Bien-Phu.

The Americans for their part had come to similar conclusions. The Philippines could not be defended, except for Bataan and Corregidor. However, General McArthur disagreed. If he could find a force of 200,000 men and had proper air cover, he could hold the area. McArthur managed to convince his hierarchy one by one, and indeed, the plan had merit: but it would take time. It was estimated that the Philippines would only be ready to be properly defended by Spring 1942, but this hope was enough. With Manila Bay secured, this would mean that Cam Ranh and the Gulf of Thailand would stay open, and allow for much more strategical options. Unfortunately, none of these plans came to pass.

However, with the reinforced position in the Far East, it helped the Americans wake up. Reinforcements were sent to the Philippines, with additional armoured brigades and the raising of an extra two native (Filippino) infantry divisions. McArthur also called up on Filippino reserve divisions to “plug the gaps” that were gaping until the arrival of proper American divisions in the Philippines. Likewise, the Dutch East Indies were reinforced, notably, with B-25s and some A-24 Banshee, as well as with modern US equipment.

Finally, in the naval point of view, it was clear that the existing units would need to be reinforced. The British strengthened their Far Eastern fleet with two extra battleships and a battlecruiser, as well as two extra carriers: the Formidable and Indomitable, the latter of which would enter service in October 1941. The French, Australians, Americans, Dutch and British also formed a unified naval command, headquartered in Singapore, in order to oversee naval operations in the area against the Japanese. The main objective was the preservation of the Malay barrier, extending from Malaya to Singapore and the Dutch East Indies. Led by admiral Thomas Hart (USN), this unified command would be extended to the air forces (Air Marshal Richard Peirse, RAF) and ground forces (LtGen Hein ter Poorten, KNIL), with General Archibald Wavell in overall command.

Overall, the Allied forces in Southeast Asia were considered sizeable, but opinions diverged on whether it was enough. While the British thought their forces were sufficient to repel an invasion, the French and Americans did not share the same point of view. Everyone just had to wait till the fateful day came to face against the inevitable shock. And it came on December 7th, 1941.

[1] Percival sucks and he has to go. Because of the presence of more colonial troops and more disruption to the upper colonial class and complaints by the Commonwealth governments, he’s gone here.
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 21, 2024 07:48    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Citation:
the Franco-Indochinese incident

Kesako ?

Je ne vois pas trop Phibun se faire évincer aussi facilement.

Ne pas oublier l'incident de l'Indomitable endommagé par son rocher en novembre 1941.

Citation:
France categorically refused to send any more: Indochina was lost, it was pointless to send more men in there.

Ça, ce n'est pas possible, aucun homme politique (sauf peut-être un communiste) n'acceptera cela.
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 21, 2024 15:45    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

loic a écrit:
Citation:
the Franco-Indochinese incident

Kesako ?

Je ne vois pas trop Phibun se faire évincer aussi facilement.

Ne pas oublier l'incident de l'Indomitable endommagé par son rocher en novembre 1941.

Citation:
France categorically refused to send any more: Indochina was lost, it was pointless to send more men in there.

Ça, ce n'est pas possible, aucun homme politique (sauf peut-être un communiste) n'acceptera cela.


Faute de frappe, ca doit lire Franco-Japanese.

Pas d'incident avec le rocher pour l'Indomitable.

Pour le cas francais, c'est qu'il n'y a pas grand chose que le gouvernement d'Alger peut faire de plus, apart la brigade blindée et un bataillon de la LE...
_________________
"It takes the Navy three years to build a ship. It will take three hundred years to build a new tradition. The evacuation will continue." Sir Andrew Cunningham, Mai 1941
"Let me soar! [...] I need no great host, just [Tyene]" - Nymeria Sand, AFFC II
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MessagePosté le: Jeu Mar 21, 2024 15:54    Sujet du message: Répondre en citant

Wings a écrit:
Pas d'incident avec le rocher pour l'Indomitable.

Pas très logique, car le navire va s'entraîner au même endroit, mais bon... J'espère que tu vas éviter au Mutsu son accident !

Wings a écrit:
Pour le cas francais, c'est qu'il n'y a pas grand chose que le gouvernement d'Alger peut faire de plus, apart la brigade blindée et un bataillon de la LE...

Si, envoyer de l'infanterie mal équipée et peu expérimentée (tirailleurs), il peut le faire, l'empire a les effectifs. Ca ne tiendra pas pas le coup face aux Japonais, mais pas d'autre choix. S'il ne le fait pas, son prestige en Indochine est compromis et ça il n'en est pas question.
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